!Trigger Warning! *Teen Self Harm* Depression Doesn't Always Have A Sign. In Loving Memory of Gage.

Summary

In this poignant conversation, Layla Evans shares her deeply personal journey through the struggles of depression, parenting and the devastating impact of her friend, Joel's son's suicide. She emphasizes the importance of understanding mental health beyond visible signs, the need for open conversations about mental illness, and the critical role of counseling and support in preventing tragedies. Layla's friend’s story serves as a powerful reminder of the silent battles many face and the urgent need for awareness and dialogue surrounding mental health issues, particularly among youth. The Suicide Prevention conversation should be as common as the birds and the bees talk. It's so integral to save our youth and prevent tragedies like this from happening to anyone else.

Takeaways

It's not just overwhelming sadness; it's a different type of struggle.
The signs of depression are not always visible to others.
Loss can profoundly impact a family, leaving lasting scars.
Mental illness can be hidden behind a facade of normalcy.
Conversations about mental health should be as common as those about physical health.
Parents need to talk to their children about depression and suicide.
Recognizing the signs of depression is crucial for prevention.
Counseling can provide essential support and coping mechanisms.
Grief encompasses both the loss of a loved one and the future they will never have.
Understanding the underlying causes of suicide is vital for prevention.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Mental Health Conversations
02:03 The Importance of Early Discussions on Mental Health
02:56 Introduction and Personal Reflections on Appearance
03:10 The Importance of Mental Health Awareness
07:03 A Father's Heartbreaking Story of Loss
14:52 Understanding Depression and Its Silent Struggles
18:57 Conversations About Suicide and Mental Health
20:31 The Impact of Loss and Moving Forward
20:47 Understanding Depression in Youth
23:18 The Importance of Open Conversations
26:20 The Role of Counseling and Therapy
29:19 Grief and Loss: A Personal Journey
34:10 The Impact of Mental Health Stigma
36:28 The Need for Awareness and Support


Mental Health Episode
https://youtu.be/WI1uGiEMKic

Transcript

0:01

Hi friends, welcome to the Do Life podcast. I'm your host, Life Coach Layla. And today we're going to be talking about something that's very hard to talk about. And I put a lot of trigger warnings up on this episode and I hope you took heed to them if you're easily sensitive. But I met with a dear friend of mine who has lost his son to self-harm, the opposite of doing life. And we wanted to make this message because mental health isn't always visible. His son didn't show any signs of depression or... suicidal ideation or any of the telltale signs that most people are familiar with. And the reason we want to make everybody aware of his situation is the idea behind our conversation is that we should have mental health conversations with our children just like we have the sex talk with. I had conversations with my children about mental health because they were showing signs of mental health issues and I recognized the signs because of my own personal struggles in my with myself and everybody in my home. So I was able to to recognize that but someone who doesn't have any kind of mental health issues who wouldn't recognize the signs. So we wanna make it as common of a household conversation as the sex talk because not everybody has signs and symptoms and not everybody knows how to recognize those signs and symptoms and it should just be a conversation that takes place. You don't always know when your kids are about to be sexually active, but you want to be proactive and having the conversation with them to keep them safe prior to anything happening. And we feel like this is kind of the same thing. this is a very difficult episode to make, to watch, to be a part of, to edit, to do all the things. Joel's been a friend of mine for over 20 years. And... And we hope that nobody ever has to go through this, but if sharing his message can help just one person, then we feel accomplished in that. So I think that explains everything. I appreciate you being here. This is a very important episode. It's very dear to my heart as a parent and as a friend. And I love you guys and. Thank you for sticking around. Hi friends. Welcome to the Do Life podcast. I'm your host, Life Coach Layla. And today I have invited my good friend Joel here with us today. known you for probably about 20 years. something like it's been a long time. Yeah. and we're going to talk about the opposite of doing life today. So trigger warning. If that's something that is going to be bothersome for you, I understand if you don't want to continue to watch this episode, we are going to get pretty heavy. So, this is, this is considered your warning. but, we both feel it's really important that we discuss mental health. The lack of care and concern and attention to it in the United States, specifically more specifically with our children and our young teenagers. Joel has had the. Unfortunate event, the worst case scenario, every parent in hopes they never have to go through happened. And so his goal and purpose is to share his story and explain. his situation and hopefully help other people in similar situations so nobody else has to go through what he's been through. I lost my 15 year old son. It's been over 11 months ago, but not quite a year to suicide. I had no idea he was even sick or depressed. you hear about it, but you don't ever think about it, think it's gonna happen to you. And I want people to know that It should be talked about more. it reminds me of when I was Gage's age when I was 15 or 16 and I felt super alone and I didn't have anybody I wanted to talk to. And, you know, you hear people say all the time, if you're feeling suicidal to reach out and talk to somebody, that was the furthest thing from my mind. and as a parent, think, your kids know how much that would hurt if they did that. But as a, as a teenager myself, I didn't, I didn't care. You know, when, when you get to those dark, dark places, like the depression is, is it's not the big sad. It's not like you're just overwhelmingly sad. It's a different type of struggle. And, to feel so alone, even after I had my first baby. I felt there were times I looked at her and she was super happy and I thought she would be better off without me. And that's a feeling that is so hard to explain to people who don't have depression and haven't dealt with it and don't understand it. That, it's not the telltale signs that you see. It's not somebody laying in bed eating snacks or refusing to get up or showering. Those are signs of depression. But It's not all be all, you know, I still got up every day and went to school and pretended I was having fun with friends and I think Gage did the same thing. None of his friends knew he was sick. His best friend didn't know. I didn't know. His brother didn't know. Will you read the story? Just to kind of get it out there. Yeah, just to give everybody an idea of what happened. I go to counseling now. I thought about writing the story and I wrote this. a couple months after it happened, but he thought it would be a good idea for me to do as well to get it in. So I think I only have one thing I would change about it now. So we can talk about that after you read it. So everyone understands where you're coming from. This is the story of Gage is seen through his father's eyes. This is not going to be easy to write and going to be very difficult to read in here. I woke up on November 2nd, 2023 at 1 11 a.m. Although I had looked at the clock wrong and thought it was 1101, I decided to get up, make sure the boys were sleeping as Ethan had work and Gage had school in the morning. First, I checked on Ethan and he was asleep, so I walked down to Gage's room and saw that his light was on and he wasn't in his room. I looked for him throughout the rest of the house and he was nowhere to be found. At this point, I figured he must have snuck out, so I grabbed my phone and called him. After a couple of tries with no answer, I decided to check Life 360. And it showed that he was out in the yard. I looked out the door and didn't see him. I figured I'd go back in my room and wait until I got home and bust him. When I got to my room, I realized it was actually around 1.15 in the morning and I had just looked at the clock wrong. This concerned me. I called him again and I checked Life 360 again. I got back up and I looked in the side of yard again. I didn't see him, so I got dressed and I went outside in the yard to look for him. I walked out to the front yard, to the side yard, and continued towards the back. I got to the privacy fence and looked over at the back yard. It was dark, but I saw what looked like to be the form of a body sleeping on a chair on the porch. I thought, why would he be sleeping on the back porch? I ran back into the house and into the back porch, I saw the back of his head in the chair sleeping, and I went to wake him up. I went and started shaking him by the shoulder saying, Gage, wake up, wake up. At that moment, I noticed a huge puddle blood under his chair, more blood than I'd ever seen. At this point, I realized his body was lifeless and he was gone. My heart sank, my eyes swelled, and I ran into the house to Ethan's room and yelled, Ethan, wake up, Gage is dead. Ethan immediately jumped up and ran back outside to Gage. Ethan pleaded with Gage to wake up, touching his face. Gage did not wake up and wasn't going to. Ethan grabbed the gun from Gage's hand and threw it down. I called their mother and told her what had happened to get over to my house and she said, don't let them take him until I get there. I could hear Ethan begging the 911 operator to send an ambulance, please send an ambulance. They did not send an ambulance. They sent two police officers in the corner. I had to go through it all again while the officer took his report. I took off my shirt so he could take photos to prove there was no struggle. Ethan also had to go through it all again for the police report. Once the coroner showed up, more questions and we all had to go through it all again. Their mother, her boyfriend and his little brother showed up. Tears, hugs all around. They go out and kiss Gage on the back of his head. I call my mom and stepdad, wake them up and deliver the devastating news. Ethan finds the suicide notes, reads them, and there are more tears. The coroner then states that they are going to take Gage away and go out one last time to say goodbye. I never could look at his face. I could not bear to see him with the blood or the hole in his head. As mother and brother both looked, I pet his hair and kissed the back of his head repeatedly and said goodbye. We all went inside and the coroner took him away. I did not see his face again until the funeral besides in photos. My precious baby boy was leaving home for the last time in a hearse and was never coming back home again, at least not in this earthly form. There we all sat, devastated and lost. A third of my life was gone so fast. This is how the worst day of my life began. A suicide note to you. There was more he wrote to everybody that meant something to him. This is the one he wrote to you says, Dad. Hey, Dad, sorry I did this. I know I mean a lot to you. Please stay strong and don't go like I did. Rocky and Ethan need you a lot. Is Rocky the dog? Okay, I thought so. Please take care of them. Take Rocky on lots of walks and feed him good. I want you to know that this is not your fault. You're such a good dad and I couldn't imagine anyone else being my dad. Thank you so much for always being there for me and I'm sorry for always yelling at you. Please take care of Abby when grandma can't. I love you." Then he put his signature just the way I had shown him how I do mine. Gage was amazing, with a charming personality and an overly witty sense of humor. He looked up to his older brother. Off the record, I once witnessed him run into a scuffle to defend Ethan, saying, don't punch my brother. He tried baseball as Ethan loved it, but didn't enjoy it as much. He asked for drums one year. I bought him a used set. He took lessons and became proficient and amazing at them, but lost interest and moved on to chess. Chess. I taught him how to play and how to move the pieces. We would play our first game and I would show him what ifs, and then we would play a second game. I would kick his butt at it. After a month of this, he was legitimately beating me at it, even though I was one on the chess team from eighth grade. to playing into my 20s. He could master anything he set his mind to. He was in the process of mastering bowling and he loved doing it. We had family game nights every other Saturday and he was so involved and loved it. He was a role model to his little brother, Cohen, and my girlfriend's son Lucas. He made them feel accepted and enjoyed spending time with them. He had friends over all the time. Online games with his friends would play washers and cards with me all the time, all my friends. and all my friends when they stopped by. Sadly, my son had a mental illness and he was able to hide it from everybody. I honestly do not believe he would have gone through with what his disease told him was normal and okay if he knew the devastation it would leave behind. I do not believe he understood exactly what he was doing and I hope that by telling our story that anyone this desperate and hiding their struggle and disease will refrain and seek help. Let it pass and let it get better. There were no symptoms or signs anyone could look for. Friends, family, or even a stranger could not have picked out a single sign he was sick. He was a normal teenager and joked around, acted happy. He had the occasional teenage outbursts, but no one had any clue that he was going to end his life this early. I don't think he knew the path of mental destruction and tears he would leave behind, and he would not have done this if he knew how many people would be permanently damaged and hurt. He somehow thought that he wasn't that important and we would all just move on. This is not the case and it has changed all of our lives. In conclusion, Gage's disease robbed him of his chance to feel normal or good about himself. It robbed him of his chance to grow old, play the game of life, make future goals, fall in love, make a life of his own and carve his own path. Gage never got to know the devastation of his decision that night would cause. many people in this world fight with depression at some point in their lives. Many more than you probably realize. Some show symptoms and seek help or find a way to recover. I myself have dealt with depression in the past and talked to a doctor and was prescribed medication that helped me with my will and I recovered. I'm now back on meds and in counseling. Gage's version of this disease did not allow him these luxuries. I only wish he could read this story, read his story, read our story before he listened to these thoughts and gave into their influence. I think he would have sought help. and the story would have been much more different. His family, friends, his family's friends, their coworkers, teachers, classmates, and everyone who reads this are affected by this. I'm a different person now and everyone I know can feel it and I will carry this to my deathbed. I believe this story, although tragic, is very important to tell and more important to read. I hope this story beats someone else's silent disease. Everyone asks me if I'm okay. No, I'm not. I wake up every morning depressed, drag myself out of bed and put on a mask. Not one hour of every day goes by that I don't think about him. That's heavy. that I've learned. since I wrote that. Got a letter from a guy who's 15 year old son, son tried to commit suicide. You were on the Dave Glover show and he was a listener and wrote it, right? He talked about how His son had said before that he didn't do it because of the thought of his family and how bad it would feel that that day, that dark cloud of depression took over so much that he didn't care anymore. So depression can be bad. I've talked with other people and it's like depression, suicide, or these two. thoughts in their head that take over and make sense to them. Now that they can look back that they've recovered and can't believe that they gave in to those thoughts. But at the time when those thoughts are hitting them heavy, that's all they can think about and do. It's like addiction that takes over. When I talk to my kids about depression, because obviously it's hereditary at some point, know, so I figured if I had it, they have it. It's like a conversation to have. I explain the depression as like a quiet whisper in the back of your head that's always there and never really goes away. And sometimes it gets louder and sometimes it gets so loud that you can't hear or think about anything else. And that's all you hear. But I've also noticed in years and years of dealing with it that the more I quiet it, the quieter it stays. The more you listen to it, the louder it gets. And then the harder it is to quiet it when it's yelling at you. I don't know if this is the greatest metaphor, but it was a way I explained it to the kids is, you know, it's a whisper that's there. And as long as you let it stay a whisper, sometimes it'll get louder. You just gotta quiet it. You keep it quiet. can't let it start shouting at you because then it's overwhelming. We talked about it with them. So many people need to talk about it. Suicide awareness, you gotta be aware before you can prevent it. We all probably know somebody. I don't want to be the guy. I never thought I'd be the guy. I never. Prepared for it. I talked to him about it. said. You know. When you started sixth grade. You're going to school with eighth graders. Too young to drink. Drugs will kill you. You're too young to have sex, but if you're going to, I'll get your protection. Why didn't I talk about suicide? Right. Why was that not one of the things I found important to bring up? I think if I if I'm answering this for you, I had the conversation with my kids about depression and suicide because I saw the signs from when I had it. And they're not a lot. They're not loud signs. it was little things like, I don't want to hang out with my friends today. I just kind of want to be alone. That's one thing. If it's a day or two, everybody goes through those days. but it was a little more frequently and a little more consistent than I liked. And it triggered that part in my brain where I was like, this is what I remember when I was their age and I got real dark real fast and I didn't have anybody pull me out of that. I wanted to make sure that they knew that they had somebody to pull them out of it. It probably wasn't something that you thought to bring up because you didn't see any signs of depression in him. I had made a lot of mistakes and got myself depressed. But I was much older. I didn't think that way when I was younger. So maybe your parents that don't, have never been through it, don't think it's important to talk about. But I've met so many people, It's a serious thing. It's because I wasn't depressed when I was a teenager doesn't mean I shouldn't talk about it. Right. I mean, you didn't know to talk about it and you didn't like you said, you're going through eighth grade, the older kids might pick on you a little bit. You shouldn't be having sex. Like these are things you're relating to when you were 15. The reason I talked to my kids about suicide is because I was suicidal at their age. You weren't. So you didn't think about it. And he wasn't showing any signs that Like I agree with you 100 % like this should be just as common of a conversation in schools, even as sex ed, we're talking about reproductive, we should be talking about mental health. It's important. And I think it for the longest time, it was seen as such a weak stigma to, to be depressed or to admit that you have any kind of feelings other than like machoism or whatever, but to admit that you're having a problem and you're struggling, I think it's stronger than trying to hide it. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. I thought badly about it. I had helped friends before with problems. I just think it's so important. we gotta stop this. It's happening too much. and destroyed my family. I think he was. so young. on his depression, take that away. He was excited about getting his license. He was excited about thinking he's making future plans. He talked to a friend on the phone that night and asked her if she wanted to come over and she said, no. homework or whatever. It's like, I'll you at school tomorrow. Who told somebody to see her at school tomorrow? I'm supposed to be helping him through the teenage years, supposed to be helping you have experience, giving advice. I know. How depression is so bad it can take. a bright future from a witty kid that is so fucking funny that he would just crack you up and tell jokes and joke with you. He had your sense of humor for sure. How does this happen? Depression got him so able to hide it from everyone. And what must he have been going through in his head? People that kids that experience depression need to, as much as you don't want to ask for help, ask for help and parents, please talk about it. Make it something you check in on because this is not what people deserve. The reason to talk about it is to get it out there. I admire you doing that. With this media, the reason I'm talking about it, it helps me process it. But I also don't want anyone to go through this. I want families to feel like this. don't want kids It leaves a hole in everyone. Depression is manageable. doesn't have to end that way. I know people that have survived suicide attempts I've talked to a lot. It is manageable. You just gotta get in front of it. And I think the scariest part was that he didn't have signs or symptoms. He kept it all inside. Yeah, which in turn just eats away at you even more, makes it worse. at least if I would have Talked about it with them. Let it be known that it's normal that people feel like that. It could have made a difference. It's having conversations about it without thinking that you need to. It's kind of like, I had conversations with my oldest daughter about pregnancy and protection and she was gay, but I still felt like she needed to know and have that information. Cause you never know. Like, clearly I'm not worried about you getting pregnant anytime soon. you're in a committed relationship with a girl, but these are things that you need to know. And I think what your, your mission is, is to make more people aware that they need to have those conversations, even if they don't think that they do, because you never know what's going on in someone's head. The signs and symptoms aren't always present. Nope. not everybody's going to ask for help and then just having that conversation and letting them know that there is support, is help, there is hope, they don't have to stay in that dark place. It's helpful. We have to find a solution we have to talk about it there. Obviously, still happening. What needs to be more common practice. I think like you said, needs to be a conversation that everybody's having. It doesn't need to happen if somebody's sad or showing signs. Like, you know, I'm not 100 % sure that I would have had a conversation with my kids about depression if they weren't showing signs. You know, I might have just... thought that was a me problem and not felt like sharing my situation or my story with them because if I wouldn't have seen the signs, I would have thought they were fine and I didn't want, you I wouldn't have wanted to drag them down or, you know, give them any kind of idea that, you know, they're subjected to my mental health disorders because hereditary reasons or genetics or whatever. So I didn't want to tell them about it. but I saw signs and had that conversation. But I don't know if I wouldn't have seen those signs, whether or not I can say I honestly would have had a conversation with them about the depression. can't be more uncomfortable as a talk about condoms. Right, right. It's probably worse to try to have the sex talk than to have the suicide talk. And you know what? You're too young to do it, but I'll buy them if you're going to because let's just be honest, if you tell them don't do it. Yeah. And they plan to do it. They're gonna lie about it so. think it's a good idea. But if you're do it, I'll get you. Protects yeah, I have friends of mine. have a 14 year old boy and he's got a girlfriend and I was like, did you buy him protection and they're like no, we have the talk. I said go buy him a box. I don't want you to use these, if. If you're going to use them, have them. You know, I'd rather you have them and not need them than need them and not have them. This isn't condoning, but it's. counselor helps, maybe give that up. Maybe it needs somebody to talk to that's not preparing. can tell uncomfortable shit too. I'm a big proponent of everybody on the planet needs to see a therapist or a counselor. Like even if you don't think anything's wrong with you, that's fine. You're not admitting something's wrong with you because you go to therapy or see a counselor. It's more or less learning. healthy coping mechanisms, having somebody an unbiased opinion to listen to, you know, your story and just having that validation like, yeah, that was really fucked up. It's okay for you to feel like that, you know, or maybe you overreacted a little bit or just somebody to kind of just be that voice of reason. That's not a parent and not a kid and friend, not a part of your family, not your child, not your parent. We can't tell anyone what you fucking said. Yeah, unless you're in that point where you need help because I would have I would have greatly benefited from that as a child I didn't have a good relationship with most of my family My grandma was the only person I really felt gave a shit about me and half the time I didn't want to tell her things because it would just hurt her So the only person I felt like I could actually communicate with I didn't want to hurt so I didn't have the conversations with her that I needed to I was afraid I didn't have like close friends and even the ones I did have, didn't trust. Like, so I never felt like I could truly open up to anybody. So having that unbiased opinion, that adult, that safe space, I'd be a different person right now. teanager or your thoughts. insecurities that are out there. everything is a big deal. It doesn't only affect teenagers. it affects adults as well. Everybody needs to be aware of their mental health and make a change. I got depressed for my first time in my mid-forties. First question to me. Why the age of... 49. Do you need to see a counselor. I told him what happened. Oh boy. said yes, need to speak with counselor. Yeah, that was his first question to me. Yeah. There's nothing to be embarrassed of to see counselors. I'm nothing to be embarrassed of to need help. Yeah. I have friends of mine and her kids see counselors and have since they were four. You know, you don't think like, what does a four-year-old need to see a counselor for? But in the same time, you know, when we talk about healthy coping mechanisms, you've got toddlers running around, growing into unruly children and teaching them healthy ways and boundaries and mechanisms to deal with the emotions and process things keeps them in a more stable mindset. I mean, it's not gonna offset any kind of underlying mental illness, but it at least helps them process things that a lot of us adults don't know how to process because we were never taught that. didn't have a traditional household. It would have been the three of us since 2012. And that was our lives. We grew up together. We helped each other. We knew each other. We were the three together. That's what I said when third of me was taken that quick. That's all I knew. you go. important has to be talked about. People need to be aware. Everybody thinks it's never going to happen to them until it does and you're like shit like my brain won't let me put myself in your position. They won't let me and I don't want to be there. Everybody knows somebody that her as a family member or a friend of a friend and knows the stories. But when it happens to you, I can't get out of bed. Some days I break down and cry almost every day. Well, every day. think about it every day. I know it's not my fault. I know that I'm There's nothing I could have done. But I didn't talk about it. There's a lot to grieve You you grieve You miss him. The grief of missing him and then the grief of the life that he doesn't get to live right now. Like that's heavy. He wasn't old enough to even pick a career yet. didn't even drive yet. He should be learning how to drive right now. He'll be 16 next month, November. coming up. I almost wonder if that's what woke up was the noise of the shot because I just woke up. Like I said, I looked at the clock and thought it was... 11 something it was 111 must have been when I looked at it. 1101 or something. Yeah. I mean, that would make sense that that sound woke you up or even just subconsciously, you know. There was times when, you know, you're here in the house upstairs, I'd be down here hanging out drinking or whatever. And I would hear upstairs, baby's crying. And my babies were teenagers at that time, but I would hear, and I would look at Nate and he'd be like, what's the matter? My baby's crying. He's like, nah, and I go up there and you know, when the kids had a bad dream and they're just laying in bed, just like. barely whimpering. Like, there's no way I heard that, audibly heard that. That's not real. But you're, you're connected to your children and you just know. And I think you, you, woke up because subconsciously you knew. Please don't let it hide in the shadows because you're afraid to talk about it. It's too... harshly subject to talk about. When the depression gets so loud that you think that you don't matter and nobody would miss you and that's especially when you need to reach out to somebody for help. The kid that attempted suicide and talked about it. Black cloud overwhelmed him. And there he heard the warning that was all he could see was that depression. talking about it gots to do something. to know there's hope, know that you trust them, to know you're not mad at them, to know you don't care, because nobody, no parent in their right mind would be. And would do anything for their kid. I appreciate you being here. Like, you know, I think about if anything happened to any of my babies, I would just be in that corner and not able to move or talk or go anywhere or do anything. And I would just wither away to nothing. So the fact that you can get up every morning and have conversations with people, that's like a superpower. I'm super proud. The that you're here and you're sharing your story and you're having this conversation. It's powerful. I would go on the path and we cry when we're not. That's fine. Me too. If Gage was still here right now, what do you think he would want you to know or say? I think. I think he regrets it. I don't think he was ready to go. think something overtook him. And I think a lot of times when this happens, people try to rationalize it. What happened? this girl broke up with him or this person picked on him. And I'm all about the anti-bullying movement. I think that's something that should have happened a long time ago. But I think we put too much emphasis on specific incidences and reasons as to why it happened as opposed to focusing on the underlying disease. And again, that might not present itself as something that is obvious that this is a problem. Depression, serious, We looked through his phone. Police looked through his phone. there's nothing there's no signs. He deleted a bunch of shit. I checked out. haven't been able to find that. Like, we can, we can recover it. Especially if like a police investigation. Files and pictures and messages. And even still, even if there was something that was like, this is it. This is why. So it doesn't make it better. It's not it's not why, you know, we put too much focus on that and on an incident or, you know, it could have been anything that triggered. small part of it. That's the underlying disease. Yeah, that needs to be focused on. I think our message today is really just emphasizing that it's not not visible. You know, I know parents, their their kids are going through a breakup and then they spend a little extra time with them and make sure that their mental health is in good order. But what about when nothing's That's what awareness leads to prevention. Share the message. Talk to your kids. Talk to your friends. People need to hear it. The more you hear about it, the more comfortable you are with asking for help. The more you see that people are concerned or that they don't judge you. and they're willing to help you and listen to you. The more people see how real this is and recognize it that it is real disease. It's just, it's just them being soft. No, it's real. They feel it. You got to show love and give help. And that's first step in figuring out how to. to stop it, to prevent it, to save lives and save families. It's needed. Important because there's so many people that feel like I do because they've been through what I have. Much more than... You can imagine there are people know. And I'm slowly dying. I don't know.